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message from developer, Tracy Collins:
Indiginus is a very small company (myself and my wife) and this is having a huge negative impact on us. Torch sells for only $50 US, a very fair price for such a product. I am myself a composer and musician, and Indiginus was founded at a time when I could not afford to pay $200 for a guitar library, so I created our first product especially for poorer musicians like myself, and we have stayed true to that vision and have just started to believe that our company could be really successful.
At this point, though, I'm thinking that it's just not worth is because of piracy.
Our latest product, Torch, took 5 months to complete, from sampling the guitar to editing the samples to designing the graphics to scripting the features, so you can imagine how it feels to be in our position.

There is a way that AudioZ could actually help us rather than hurt us:
Please remove all links to the downloads on this post, and any other posts on your site.
We have always had free, working products available for those who need them. You are welcome to link to this package

It contains several really working instruments (not demos) to help those who cannot afford to buy.
They can contact me for support (for the freepack or legally purchased items).

comments

  Resident 6.06.2011 4 244
+167
Indeed, $50 is a good price for such a huge pack (1.8gb). So you get a lot for a small amount of money.

I think most of us should buy more good stuff to keep development up.

Anyway, should they get blacklisted now? If yes, where to set the line between "good devs" and "bad devs"? I mean, e.g. Reaper costs for personal use $60, in fact thats the cheapest (pro!) sequencer on the market - so why it's not blacklisted also? Furthermore, Reaper has an unlimited demo, there's no need for a crack.

You see, it's hard to decide. I stand for blacklisting in this case, but this will lead to further discussion I guess.
  guest -- 0
0
just don't crack renoise hhohhohohoohoh !!!! dunno
  Resident 11.09.2011 120
+4
...if you make money with any stuff, go and buy it !!!

But for deeper testing of usefulness I am happy to get the
stuff for free...



  Resident 16.09.2010 1295
+114
I truly feel bad for this guy.. I know what its like to have my work stolen, i really wish I could afford to support him , i think its a great plugin.
Yaaaaawn
  Resident 24.10.2010 57
+5
...and even if you you are not making money, just as regular user, go and buy! wink
Like if you're using some soft regularly, it gotta be good enough for you to make the purchase.
If money is issue, maybe you need to pick cheaper alternative to those Diamonds and Platinums, so you won't have to negotiate with your loan shark. Just not having a habit to have it for free.
  Resident 17.02.2009 769
+258
I don't use his products but, he makes a good point about his price wink methods.
Touch The Wires : I Dare You
  Contributor 3.05.2011 473 3113
+17875
atleast i'm waiting for cfa sound, sonic academy that they want to get backlisted.
yh i know its really hard to decide ... but honestly i really downloaded only to test it. and i cant test it when i have only the major scale to work with ...
and in fact always the nexus guitars and the logic converted to kontakt wins foe me ...
so who is the next developer which will BL his stuff?!
for example ADAM SZABO with his JP6K never asked for getting backlisted - know him personally ... he said its bad that his wonderful synths get cracked/ leaked by assign he was really angry, but yh he also got free advertisment and still a few ppl buy his synths for 25?.

if u really work with it - u should buy it ... i do this generally, when i have some money of and i really like to work with it ...

(... and he lost the race all in all - sry to say but his project is all over the place now ... make a google search for the whole release name and u'll see ...)

... but yh its his opinion ... i'll respect it.
  Resident 24.03.2009 3 276
+48
jeeeeeeeeeeeeezz talk about ruin the FUN out of piracy

its like a woman who want sex and says "quick I think I'm ovulating!"
  Contributor 3.05.2011 473 3113
+17875
google
jeeeeeeeeeeeeezz talk about ruin the FUN out of piracy

its like a woman who want sex and says "quick I think I'm ovulating!"

haha :D
  Resident 24.10.2010 57
+5
google,

Yeah, as you see, piracy have become legal business. We rely on full customer satisfaction. rofl
  Resident 10.08.2010 348
+32
the fact is simple...just as the motto of an old and famous team goes....TRY before you BUY...and if you use it (and it's very affordable) BUY IT....
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
  Resident 8.08.2011 410
+45
In the case of Reaper, I think it should be blacklisted. You *can* try it before you buy it.
  guest -- 0
0
I tested this plug-in, just for couriosity how such a thing would work. I don't need really guitars in my (electronic) music and so I deleted it afterwards. I therefore have two installations, one for working, one for testing. I really understand that you, the creator of torch are not happy to see your prog on this side. But be aware that many ppl buy the stuff after they tried it as cracked version. So I do, I allways buy the stuff if I want to use it seriously because I want to hold it in my hands, no chance to loose it anymore and no hustle with further updates, and I don't want to rip off someones hard work. I think in this case I can speak for the most ppl inhere: we also are musicians and understand your point of view in every thinkable way.

Please think about: The once most spreaded ZIP Packer WINZIP has earned his primary position due the fact that this little program was spread as cracked versions all around. WINZIP would never be in the position in the beginning to make marketing for it. So the program became popular through the spreaded cracked versions. Maybe this makes you a little more comfort with the thought that your plug-in is, or has been, on this side for download.

Anyway, thank you for writing here and don't be angry about some birdbrained comments. Idiots sadly are spread also into the global networks dunno Thank you. wink
  Resident 3.09.2010 1 53
+13
I blame people joking small developers and taking benefit from the piracy just for fun.

This developer made a great job on this product:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pyy8l3U7PB4

Free stuff for poor musicians, affordable price for regular musicians, he came here asking a hand instead of calling the lawyer.

If you need to fool somebody out here, there's plenty of software houses which can afford to be fu*ked from piracy due to their enterprise wasting pricing policies. Some names? Ad*be, M!cro$ft, even App!3...
  guest -- 0
0
Well, I realize of this library just because it appears here. I checked the demo that fabthecop points here, I liked it, I bought it.
  Resident 16.09.2010 1295
+114
Well said fabthecop...

and out of curiosity i have to REAAAAAALLY wonder how many people who SAY they buy after try...

...actually do..?


I bet its not even 20% of those who say they do. no

Human nature tells me this.


then again.. I can't imagine a pirate.. telling a lie.. rofl
Yaaaaawn
  Resident 6.01.2011 578 2667
+10985
I'm a member of audiowarez scene from 1997 and I know for 100% - only big professional and rich studios can buy music software. All other and especially young musicians cannot buy because of lack of money for this goal. People who has enough money never will looking for warez stuff. Most of developers thinks they cannot sell their products and cannot get more money because of warez. But this is natural bullshit. Audio-warez always was for poor musicians and for testing.

All learning stuff must be absolutely free for all. Developers like MacProVideo, Groove3, Sonic Academy and other developers of such kind must have money from developers of products - Native, Steinberg, etc. Because their learning courses are advertising for these products.

As a result - dear developers, don't make a runny nose, don't make a bitter lament, and never even dream to have money from poor people and poor musicians!

And best wishes to all people who support audiowarez scene! mates
  Resident 6.08.2011 20
0
If it costs 50 on a per sale base, Taking into account that say 10-20 of that is the download fee for the bandwidth then he should market a license fee of say $30-40.
This way if someone does enjoy the lib and does not have to download it then he has his cost cut and should look into converting existing downloaded pirate copy users
into customers regardless how they obtained the product in question.

Of course my idea is debatable in many aspect. However we are human and some of us are
greedier then others
Lag is the #1 killer
  Banned 17.05.2010 375
+155
I've been around sites like this one for a long, long time. Over the years, I've seen several software manufacturers show up, and attempt to talk to people about the unlicensed use of their software. It never does any good. Thinking that it will is just being unrealistic.

You're being a nice fellow, and your're approach will no doubt make you more future friends than those that come here with a nasty tone and threats. But it's still not going to change anything.

People may share these things here, but this is not really a "cracking" site. Within a few hours of something being shared here, it's also being shared at a hundred other sites. If it gets pulled here, it is still available elsewhere. This site has no control over that. Thus, 100% compliance here with your request (a steep accomplishment), will still not alter your concerns.

The notion that people that download something through links here have taken a "sale" away from you, is also just plain silly. I would guess that the average person hanging out at a site like this is purchasing somewhere between very little and nothing. Whether I do or do not download something like Torch, the potential for me being able to purchase it at the moment is ZERO. I do not change the fortunes of you, your family, or your business. The large majority of people here do not.

good luck!
"It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken"
  Resident 26.05.2012 14 1003
+491
That's exactly right... developers don't lose money from pirated software. Most (not all) people that use pirated software, RARELY buy anything from anyone. The person visiting this site would never have been a customer and probably may not have known of a product's existence if not for sites like these (again most, not all). I'm the rare 5% that buys (if your shit is worth it)... but I've been burned SO many times buy libraries/software that never lived up to its expectations and hype that I've resorted to this place. I've got an entire 4TB drive that contains libraries I NEVER use because: 1) they contained 3 or 4 good sounds/patches and the rest sucked, 2) they sound dated and 3) they are no longer supported with updates.
So I'm tired of pissing money away that I have to "save up" because a demo "sounds so good, I just gotta have it!"" when in reality, the elite composers endorsing the product (and who can actually afford it) receive the libraries for free in exchange for their demos and product development advice...
I know THAT may not apply to smaller developers, but it should come as no surprise to this same small developer that your product would end up being pirated. You knew about piracy when you started your company (unless you live under a rock in Siberia) and may even have pirated stuff yourself but you now feel violated and have jumped aboard the PIRACY BANDWAGON... deal with it or get out of the business. Others will replace you.
Sorry that the truth is so painful but that's the world we live in now... the internet is at fault and you've tried to use it too for your benefit and financial gain.

The way I look at it, is if you're smart and offer up your products, NOT ONLY at affordable price points but possibly unite with other small developers and create a rent-to-own model/program where your potential customer pays $5 or $10-a-month toward his/her purchase until it's paid off AND has the option to cancel the purchase if it doesn't live up to expectations... then you will REALLY make it a viable option for struggling/starving musicians/artists and you WILL see increased sales because you will have gained the trust and respect of an entirely neglected musical demographic... us pirates floating upon the internet seas!!!

PS: I bought Xfer's Serum (at Splice) and currently rent Output's Arcade due to it's affordable rent-to-own platforms... (just sayin"). You can't fight fire with fire... you will always get burned. That applies to both of us.
  Resident 2.04.2010 67
+2
Krock, what did young/poor musicians do before computers and software existed to buy recording equipment, instruments etc when they wanted to make music? They SAVED money .. They saved so they could afford to buy what they wanted and bought only things they really needed. We are in the era of computer music now, making music is REALLY cheap, something like this didn't exist even 20 years ago. Software is cheap man, considering what you can do with it. Before you had to buy shitloads of gear and equipment to record some primitive tracks but somehow young / poor musicians managed.. Anywayzz, rant over..

And it's bullshit that those learning video makers get money from developers. Maybe they get sponsored with software but that's about it.
  Resident 26.05.2012 14 1003
+491
@ olavi:

The problem with that logic is that we live in a lightning fast, internet-fueled world and if you don't have the latest/greatest sound... you will be left in the dust.
No one has time for you to develop (like 40 years ago when I was signed to Arista Records and was PAID to practice, write songs and develop) as an artist anymore. You don't have the time to save up anymore... by the time you have saved up enough money to buy the thing you dreamed of... it has been updated/upgraded 5 times and then rendered obsolete!!

Your thoughts were once reasonable but not anymore. Good try though...
  Moderator 21.01.2012 1037 9967
+54870
Are you aware that olavi wrote this comment in 2011?
  Resident 16.09.2010 1295
+114
some really good points of view here...altho most of the people here, including myself cannot afford, and probably will not buy most of this stuff.. it absolutely does not mean we are entitled to it... but we take it anyway.. and justify in anyway we see fit.

Its quite sad really, even tho I participate, I feel guilty, and I feel honor, and honesty is being lost in today's society, and the sense of entitlement only increases.
Yaaaaawn
  Resident 15.12.2008 35
0

EHCanadian
However we are human and some of us are
greedier then others



When you talk about greed this dude EC Canadian is a greedy rip off artist himself, he charges a monthly fee to download the pirated material stuff he gets for free here and elsewhere and on other free website on the net like this. If you don't pay him a monthly fee on his website he bans your membership, regardless if you have a high upload to download ratio. He comes unto various websites begging people for the latest products and then go sell them to other folks on his own, without paying the manufacture of the software a single dime. The stuff he downloads here or on the various free websites are downloadable when you pay him monthly, you can't get on his own website unless you pay, and pay often and constantly. Being a member is not enough, he wants you to be a constant paying member. I donated on this dude's website in good faith, and once he saw that I didn't do it every month kept my money and banned my membership. Talk about greed and ripping off the company, this guy should be banned here.




  guest -- 0
0
rico88 made a good point: Not everybody who has downloaded the SW is a potential buyer of the SW. I tried it, played around a bit, but will probably never use it again. So the actual loss is limited!
But I agree: If you make money out of it or using it regulary, buy it.
  Resident 6.08.2011 20
0
kday
When you talk about greed this dude EC Canadian is a greedy rip off artist himself, he charges a monthly fee to download the pirated material stuff he gets for free here and elsewhere and on other free website on the net like this. If you don't pay him a monthly fee on his website he bans your membership, regardless if you have a high upload to download ratio. He comes unto various websites begging people for the latest products and then go sell them to other folks on his own, without paying the manufacture of the software a single dime. The stuff he downloads here or on the various free websites are downloadable when you pay him monthly, you can't get on his own website unless you pay, and pay often and constantly. Being a member is not enough, he wants you to be a constant paying member. I donated on this dude's website in good faith, and once he saw that I didn't do it every month kept my money and banned my membership. Talk about greed and ripping off the company, this guy should be banned here.


I'm not even going to argue with such a clam without proof
Lag is the #1 killer
  Resident 13.12.2010 108
+9
olavi,
You are absolutely right man. A lot of guys have that "I can't afford" excuse, even at $50. Makes you wonder how they pay for their internet bills and all those Premiums; I guess they still leave in their mama basement.
The truth is, we take because we can take. we take because it is available. If we wake up one day and site like Audioz are all gone, WE'LL HAVE TO BUY, plain and simple. It's a blessing to be able to gain access to these softs and plugs but dudes in here acting like it's a legitimate right, just don't have their mind right.
When a bunch of folks realize that PT 9 (Win) wouldn't surface anytime soon, you know what they resort to do? Yeah, you got it, they end up buying PT 9. I personally know a few of them.
We take because it is available, not necessarily because we "can't afford". Stop that B.S. already.
  guest -- 0
0
if something is reasonably priced and i use it often or daily, then i WILL actually buy it and support it. if something costs like $600 then honestly, who is going to buy it if they can get the same thing for free with no difference? only professionals who can spend that $600 without even noticing it. the way i see it, lets take Ableton Suite for example. rrp is $1000 = out of most everyday peoples price range so say every 1 outta 1000 users buy it. if they lowered that price to $100 then id say atleast 200 out of those 1000 would end up buying it just to loose the hassle of waitng for a crack and to get the tech support. companies need to understand if they dropped the price they would make more money instead of setting it stupidly high.
  Resident 16.09.2010 1295
+114
deadfacedftw
When you can afford it, then yes pay. But to be at a disadvantage when learning and developing your skills because you are too poor to afford it while others gain the upper hand because they are richer than you... Education/knowledge should have no price.

You see, it is not bullshit for those of us who actually cannot afford it.


Yes, that's BS.... in MY opinion. You take because you can... PLENTY of people, more than not do NOT take, even if they cannot afford. They do without, because they know it it wrong.

No one has the 'right' to take someone elses product..that someone else has invested their time and money into for free... because they.. can.

for ANY reason.

So for those of you justifying it.. you should just be honest with yourselves and admit to yourselves, regardless of the excuse that it is not justified.

I will at least acknowledge that when I take.. for free, I am wrong for doing so.... but that's just me.
Yaaaaawn

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