BlackList Update: Indiginus

@deadfacedftw -

So how come people use a cracked version of Reaper? It's $60. (And you can use it for free anyway if you want.) How many $20-$30 plugs end up being cracked?

A company lowering their prices will not end piracy. They may pick up a *few* new buyers in the price range you're talking about, but will lose money in the long run from the people who were buying it at the higher price. Cakewalk and Cubase are both cheaper now than they were in years past, as is Apple's Logic. (In fact, they're all pretty much half what they used to cost.) I wonder how many people bought them instead of pirating because of the lower price. I bet it wasn't that much of an increase.

I friggin rock

Yes, that's BS.... in MY opinion. You take because you can... PLENTY of people, more than not do NOT take, even if they cannot afford. They do without, because they know it it wrong.

you're thick in the skull

Maybe.. but at least I'm honest with myself and know right from wrong.

It is what it is. I just think its really funny when people say they they download the product just to test it but come on guys we all know if its free and we arnt goint to use it to make money then the chance of us buying the liscenced version are slim. But with no companies releasing no limit demos then its good to try the product just incase we end up spending money on a piece of rubbish or a product similar to one we already have.

@satan213

i cant answer that. $60 to some people is like $6000 to others. i guess its all relevant somewhere. maybe my logic is wrong but i would buy Ableton if it were a lot cheaper, the same way i think if wind0w$ was cheaper m$ would make a lot more from people who cant be bothered to deal with the next wga work around.

im not justifying my use of warez, im just saying it how i see it. i know of a few fairly paid well know producers who are still using warez to make their stuff and will only pay for stuff that isnt cracked yet as a last resort. youll always get people that will take, youll always get some that will give back. if everyone switched to warez tomorrow and no one bought anymore then there would be no money to pay devs or products would get dropped cause of lack of support. they money i make off music i usually spend on buying the software i use. some will call me dumb for that but without that software in the first place i wouldnt be getting that cash in the first place.

@KRock: If you are a member since 1997, you should know that the scene changed dramatically. You can't compare yesterday and today that easy.

Back in that days, usually
* warez were for free (just internet fees)
* nobody got money, e.g. thru ads
* the circle of warez users was very small

You say, only big companies can buy software... thats wrong. Best practice: Cubase 6.
There is no cracked version available, but many, many installations (just check yt for tuts). So, many individuals paid for it, thats a fact.

I just want to remember, that everyone who's making seriously music, even let's say as semi-pro without making that much/no money, should consider to buy software, especially from smaller companies. If you don't, you won't have anythng to l33ch in the future, cause making audio software isn't worth makin it.

If you like it - BUY it.

Am I the last one, who's thinking that?

@bigboobs

i agree with you 110%

If we don't support the small developers all we'll have left is the bloated corporate shovel-ware.
if you use the tool and can't afford 50 bucks to support your hobby you are hurting yourself as much as this developer.
if it's a vote my vote is to honer this fellows wishes and remove the links (even though that hardly is a complete solution for him personally)

Its very sad!! i think we should support this guy...

I don't use his products but, He makes a great point about his & any product for that matter out on the open market. Tolerance is the Key to anything!

i feel bad dude! i dont use your program anyway! but for who is making money with this should buy it! well good luck mate!

so many rights and wrongs to cope with...

the scene has changed... well, also the world has changed. zillions of wannabe studio producers are all over the place, analog equipment is being virtualized within some ugly code, and the available tracks for listening are more than a population of 100 earths would need.

And sometimes i have the impression that real music is made somewhere else, constructed and conceived at another planet, not one of those warez-planets, but with physical instruments and sweat on the floor, and years and years of practice behind teachers and acoustic rooms. And those bad students end up using Cubase/Ableton/Pro Tools/add whatever u like.

But still, there are those nights i spent on that monitor, where i give birth to some noises that come from my total absence of musical education, yet from a huge library of endless possibilities, a magnificent potential that came up to my hands after the hard work of both programmers/designers/crackers. And that stuff of mine always ends under Creative Commons.

I am not a sinner, i am not a saint. I love technology, i hate tabs. Electronic music is here, and rather here to stay. To consider every case on this planet is impossible. Where sloth exists, there comes the easy way. When innovation is absent, piracy finds a way.

EHCanadian,

You really can't argue.

Didn't you in the past and still currently run a website that ask people to donate money constantly on a monthly basis to down load the software you get here and elsewhere for free?

And the folks that don't download are banned because they don't use up their seed money, and you can't get paid every month the $500 to $600 dollars that is your monthly goal you try to extort out of members who join your website.

What's the name of your audio sample website you operate right now?

Well now, what do we have here. A simple DMCA has turned into a debate. Who cares if the guy wants his stuff taken down from the site. it's not like we can't just ask a "Friend" for it anyways. Now @ kday EHCanadian does NOT charge any money, he simply asks for donations, However he does ask for either a few bucks or a ratio exchange when using the FTP system.Bandwidth is not cheap you know. He does not get stuff from here. Actually if you ask around most get stuff from his site and as far as you getting banned. If you indeed did donate then you are immune to being banned besides EHCanadian never ever banned anyone. If you got banned then it was ME that did it, can't say why for sure but I stand by my decision. Oh and yeah all DMCA's should be respected regardless of the size of the company.

Rico88 still wrote everything important about it. The whole discussion
is senseless. Indiginus Developer Tracy Collins is talking to the wrong
people, the pirates, not to the target group of his products. If anybody
knows what AIDA means, he or she will realize that pirates (like kids
which steal candy from a rack) don't exists in the spectrum of possible
customers. This means the developer does not have any exhibit in
business knowledge...

When WE dont download his product, he wont be richer or has more customers.
I did have social contacts with homeless people which are begging in the city and
its a fact that less payed, young men are the most generous. But the World is ( in
this case ) not split into Poor and Rich... its Nerds and Analog-Guys. :D

Tracy Collins dont worry, i think many downloaders choose the piano/guitar-library
with the HIGHEST GIGABYTES!!!! Or they test all and buy one afterward or they're
looking in test magazines/sites..

DoktorDito,
The discussion makes sense, very much. It shows the arrogance from some and the humbleness of others; It shows who can comprehend and know right from wrong. All Rico88 did was put down his opinion, which some will agree with and some won't (including me); none of it close to be facts by a long shot.
A software is nothing but a virtual piece of a product that could be in a physical retail store. So, can you walk in and take a copy off the shelf? and explain to the police that the copy you took in anyway doesn't make the developer any poorer or richer? gimme a break, folks. Go ahead and try to defend yourself even if it means to write what doesn't make sense. Like Olavi mentioned, could you do this 20 years ago? We didn't even have excuse back then.
I come to this site like everybody else, I take like everybody else and I'll stand accountable for what I'm taking. It's when some folks start to diminish the value of the devs or try to paint them as evil because they put a price on their product then you start to see who just don't want to hold up to their action of taking for free, as if, it's a right. No, it's NOT a right.

I'll stand by this: We take because we can, let's lose the "I can't afford" part. that part doesn't hold weight especially when we talking about a $50 piece of soft.

i use voxengo elephant on all my tracks...i went and brought it after reading all this...

@ Remix, good of you to do that.

i use voxengo Elephant on all my tracks too

I went out and bought a bag of grass after skim reading this ;) :) with the money i saved

I did buy Ableton Live though .....er....erm...and that was slightly expensive...so i'm good person i guess....

--where's that granny person that always posts crazy stuff---

why would anyone pay for grass?, I just take it when I'm hungry

I often buy the cheaper stuff I download from here if I end up using it but it often takes takes me longer than demos last for me to test a product. However I know the vast majority don't and many, like me, find it a struggle to even pay for the cheaper stuff.

Unfortunately I would love to develop digital products such as apple loops for garageband, logic and the likes as well as products for the various samplers and sell them at a reasonable cost (a few $/ depending on the development times) but I see that these types of products are really popular here and on similar sites so this puts me off trying.

I did wonder if I could develop small packs free just for the "scene" on an ongoing basis so that my other products would be left well alone but this sort of agreement could not be spread across the multitude of "sharing" sites. I would only post free stuff here because I have used this site so much over the years, there are a couple of other sites I have used but the vast majority are just mirrors of other crap sites which grab their content automatically. This sort of situation really does destroy a persons willingness to invest time, energy and hard cash into product development so I really feel for this guy in a way that, maybe, others would/could not.

I would ask anyone downloading the more reasonably priced software to pay for a legit copy if they use it often, the price of this guys software is less than a good night out and although I have not tried it (not my thing) the size of the library gives the impression that it is worth it - compare the price to similar stuff from the money grabbing software producers!

I think that educating the lurkers is key to this as there are, as others have said, many advantages to this site and other similar sites but only if you have a great many other products or more folk are prepared to pay for a fairly priced product.

I used to pay full price for everything when I was using it professionally but now I am not working (ill health) so nearly everything is too expensive nowadays for me and I can see that the likes of Cubase and Logic are a sickening cost to bear for mere mortals but $50? Saying that I've only been able to afford to pay for stuff around the 20 max.

I think there is plenty here on this page for other users of this site to consider so the guy may well have helped his situation merely by posting his message here - fingers crossed for him anyway and I hope he does well and is inspired to create other products.

Myself and my son are still planning on producing a couple of libraries of sounds/loops just to test the water by selling on ebay BUT GET THIS - when I was researching I found guys selling links from this site - now THAT is twisted or what? Makes me wonder if I should just process some of the stuff downloaded from here and sell that LOL - at least I would be adding something but these guys just email you the links to filesonic and the like WTF and people are paying... Go take a look in the pro audio gear if you don't believe me!

and likely they are well on the way to a very hot, very uncomfortable place, for a very long time.

I am stunned by Collin...

So plz also remove /samples/17922-indiginus-appalachian-mountain.html

@tkrojam --

It's a nice, decent thing you are doing, but at the same time you reinforce the very point I was trying to make earlier. If you Google "indiginus appalachian mountain", you will find a few thousand hits, hundreds of which are for addresses where you can download the 'appalachian' software.

So what good does your very nice gesture do? How does pulling it here help this guy? It doesn't change a thing. Leave it, pull it, it's still available and does absolutely nothing to improve Tracy Collins' situation.

I really like AudioZ a ton, but we're not in charge of the internet, and don't control what travels through the internet. This site makes a difference to the people that come here, not to the people who manufacture software. We do not change their lot in life, and have zero control over whether they succeed or fail. Some software makers want to believe that is the case, but they do so at the expense of accepting reality; specifically, a bad economy, small software makers that aren't very well known and at best would claim a small market share anyway, and stiff competition from larger software companies that are better equipped to get through tough times. Were "Tracy" to spend his time trying to resolve those issues instead of fretting over what gets shared here, he'd be in a far better position to get by.

Here, I'll even attempt to help Tracy Collins out with a decent idea.... sell the rights to "Torch" to a company like Big Fish! Get a royalty on it for copies sold, get an advance for the sale, and wind up having some money for you and your family. In a dismal global economy, that's the way to go, because the 'little guy' always gets mauled in this environment. It sucks, but in five years maybe you'll have a name as well known as someone like Dan Dean, and will have a better chance at selling your creations on your own.

Anyway, Google 'indiginus appalachian mountain', and see for yourself.

kday

Didn't you in the past and still currently run a website that ask people to donate money constantly on a monthly basis to down load the software you get here and elsewhere for free?

Nope, Never did. I think your confused with another site.

kday

And the folks that don't download are banned because they don't use up their seed money, and you can't get paid every month the $500 to $600 dollars that is your monthly goal you try to extort out of members who join your website.

What are you on about?, No one gets banned unless they are inactive
for two months and even then they get deleted and not banned but not
before a 2 week email notification. I do not force any user into
donating. Nor do any staff on our site ride on a high horse.

I have always shown the target n current of our donations. Unlike
other sites that do not show this info. And our monthly cost are
from 5 servers rentals and 16TB of archive space plus these servers
are used for a ton more then you know nothing about that always gives
back to the site community and helps the audio www in general

kday

What's the name of your audio sample website you operate right now?

That alone tells me its been some time since you have been on the site.
This place isn't here for site adverting. However I'm still waiting on
your proof of such clams. You remind me of this one users that was pro
file host sharing and anti bittorrent

Easy fellas. This has gotten way O.T. Bottom line is that it's his company and his investment. He has every right to ask for the links to be taken down. Some of you have tried to say that it should help his overall exposure and retail but not once did those same people say that they would or did buy his product. I think he has a good point and we should be happy that we got what we got. And @ Kday I'm real sorry that you are so bitter that you hijacked this thread and turned it a personal issue. I can see why I banned you!!!

rico 88 "The notion that people that download something through links here have taken a "sale" away from you, is also just plain silly. I would guess that the average person hanging out at a site like this is purchasing somewhere between very little and nothing."

Yes, thats another 100% truth! I also have not much money and I have to look what my money it's goin for. Last buy is G-Force M-Tron Pro (about 160 Euro but this thing is worth to buy FOR ME because I am totally in love with the Mellotron). But this buy is something I have to pass on a few lovely things the next weeks or months, things that make my live worth living. So I cannot do this very often and I am choosing very carefully what I will buy and what I will "try". And yes, it's only a little part of the software I am goin to use.

Many ppl inhere do better for themselves to go and drink a beer with friends as to go and buy the software they use and stay at home alone because of luck of money. It's absolutely worthless to have only manic-depressive musicians making music like Portishead or Bjrk (I love Bjrk!). It must have musicans like Dexy's midnight runners and the Toasters or Madness. Otherwise you can give civilization a shot in the head... am I right or am I wrong?

@Mykal --

When reading your post just above, I realized that maybe some of what I had said earlier could have been misunderstood. Just because I disagree with the value or what I view as the sensibility of these 'removal' requests, wasn't meant to suggest that AudioZ shouldn't comply with the man's take-down request. Pretty much every site goes along with those sort of requests nowadays... I recognize there really isn't a choice, you have to go along with it. I just consistently find myself questioning why these people bother, since I am convinced that a take-down demand isn't going to change much of anything for a company like Indiginus.

That will be the end of my off-topic discussion in this thread

On the topic of poor musicians and try before buy, well I am a high school kid getting $10/week pocket money - I saved up for Cubase 6 and bought it. I also used to work part-time on a kid's minimum wage less than $8/hr, and I worked for my audio interface, headphones and amp, microphone, midi controllers and pc rig. So the rest of ya'll have no excuse. The rest of my money slowly goes to my wishlist (until I get out of school, then more $ xD) - Steven Slate Drums V4, a VRM box and Orange Tree's Acoustic Guitar.

I can say for certain that warez-d material has been my greatest learning tool.

dadarkman

A software is nothing but a virtual piece of a product that could be in a physical retail store. So, can you walk in and take a copy off the shelf? and explain to the police that the copy you took in anyway doesn't make the developer any poorer or richer? gimme a break, folks. Go ahead and try to defend yourself even if it means to write what doesn't make sense. Like Olavi mentioned, could you do this 20 years ago? We didn't even have excuse back then.

Thats because software can be copied effortlessly, bit by bit, therefore it isnt like stealing a copy from the shop (n-1) as it doesnt result in a physical loss.. and if you were honestly never going to buy the product in the first place i see no way as to how it equals a lost sale.