CL-Projects Neutron Pad Synthesizer KONTAKT-MAGNETRiXX

It's not a clear-cut scenario and varies wildly from developer to developer, even product to product in some cases. There are some that don't feel any substantial impact no matter when a product is released but then again there are some that certainly do. This is a subject that is endlessly fascinating to me and luckily I get a chance to discuss these matters with both members/prospective buyers and developers that are personal friends of mine. You're also equating all members of AudioZ when we vary wildly from person to person (you wouldn't believe by how much) in our financial status and in the way that we use the site. Some members here buy practically everything they use. There are people here that never intend to buy something no matter when it's released but then there are some that have run out and bought a product because it wasn't available for a while. Things move fast especially in the audio world and people are endlessly distracted by that next synth, processor, innovation that they are a lot less likely to want to buy something that they already have for free sitting on their hard drive oftentimes not even having the time to decide if they need it or even really want it because they already have it. Then they're on to the next big thing. That ends up being bad for the member/producer in many ways as well.

Regardless as to whether there is a clear causal relationship between release date and effect on the developer's finances, the psychological impact itself can't be discounted. The warez machine is an intimidating contraption and you are only one, two, three devs against the will of many. Imagine that you work hard for months/years on something endlessly complicated and time-consuming only to see it show up a few days after release. Sometimes this is enough to discourage the production of future products even before the thought as to the bottom line. There was actually a developer that those that know quality respect a lot and they were thinking of shutting down because of how quickly their stuff was getting leaked. I'm sure there was a financial component to it as well. So whether there is a quantifiable monetary effect or not is not the full picture in and of itself and even there I've seen enough evidence to justify concern when things are leaked early.

Eloquent, succinct and on point CatBro.

As you say, it is the whole, "What`s the point" guys like CL Projects feel when having spent hour upon hour honing such a product, only for it to be decided by someone else that it`ll be given away gratis.

The fairly recent 1 month strike showed EXACTLY how the warez old schoolers felt and how they would self regulate were it upon them to decide. As was stated at the time, there are a great many bottom feeders that think of nothing other than their own profit and kudos at getting the release out first, tagged with a NO MIRRORS proviso.

I happen to know CL Projects, have done for 5 years, and consider him a friend, so, I admit to being personally biased concerning him. I know he is reticent about the whole warez issue and understands and accepts the game, for now, but surely there is only so much a man should have to take!

That makes it more within reason for you to have some concern if you know the developer on a personal level. And if the NO MIRRORS scheme is to preserve some sort of small revenue for the uploader/s.. it's the making money/bootlegging side of warez that's an ugly gesture. When they do that they are going against the grain of the same code of ethics they supposedly stand for.

Damn.. and I was almost about to drop a short note in advance and say "Hey Catalyst, if you happen to read over some of these contrasting views you can take the day off". I have not more respect for anyone on this site than you based on the time you put into it. You tend to the whole site and I hope you know you probably have a solid book you can publish. There's enough material in all your comments for you to pull from and put it together. Anyhow, I hear you on that level in regard to members spending habits varying here. I deliberately excluded members of the community as being potential product buyers in general. I think it is a worthy generalization to make as there is perhaps a 1/50 ratio I use as an educated guess on who will actually purchase a product. I say this for two reasons. One is because the routine cycle has it so the average member actually "knows" in advance that most all products will surface here.. especially products along the lines of Kontakt libraries. And second, if we review the comments section under every post the ratio of thank you's, activation questions, and other things that confirm a number of downloads even without the X number of downloads from members who left no comment outweighs any number of members who definitely would be keen on sharing that they bought it 50 to 1 at best. It's probably not even that good. The ratio could very well be beyond 100/1 buyer given several products. There's a reason developers aren't posting links here themselves to redirect the members to their site. They could say, "Hey, here's a place where a hell of a lot of people like plugins and Kontakt libraries.. Let's sign up and notify everyone when we have special offers". They know where all warez communities are and they don't waste their time. And it's because of those ratios. These communities are totally outside the realm of the sales business for the most part. The realm of the sales business on the network and in the physical public is vastly larger in numbers than warez domains. They don't need sales referrals from within warez forums. That's why I said the Earth is a big mf. A brand new developer visualizes a path to market-to and seemingly is only discovered by warez communities? Of course they market elsewhere and low and behold a person of warez discovers them in their realm of business. Now if this product is seen by one member of each warez site and is brought home and shared with all members.. It's being shared with the same class community with the high "no buy" ratio. Only an inventor/developer who is unfamiliar the demographic nature of the sales business could imagine that it would have a severe negative impact on sales. Unless: The only tangible form of detriment comes from bootlegging which is a whole different ballpark with figures being payed to parties illegally. Then it is their money that is being put into the hands of someone else. I think it's a great idea to say, "Hey, this developer isn't asking too much.. support him if you can find it within your means". But to be here and go as far as to get angry on behalf of the developer I find to be touche. I believe this because if a member here reported they lost their wallet with $3000 in it today I can't imagine another member who would be genuinely upset on his behalf. But I can imagine another member saying he's a good dude and help him out with anything if you can. I want to cut it short. But those were some more examples from my point of view. I know this is a subject that can take minds on an adventure. Thanks for taking time and shedding some light from your perspective.. always welcome bro.

Thanks a lot man, I really appreciate the kind words. I find pleasure in helping people enjoy a little music in their lives because many have brought me the opportunity to enjoy some in mine and I was touched by the gesture and felt compelled to provide someone else that opportunity. AudioSex Reloaded is being assembled as we speak as well. Really looking forward to that.

I don't purport to be able to make an accurate assessment on how many people here support the developers, the actual numbers are anyone's guess. I would like to think that the ratio would be considerably higher than your estimate, at least I've done what I could to encourage that because I truly believe that it's the right thing to do and we shape the market of available products and their excellent or dubious quality as well as possessing the capability to reward innovation and ingenuity. What I can say however is that practically everyone that commented in this thread buys a substantial portion (some damn near all) of their software so that's definitely a good start. And out of the central members that comment often, a healthy percentage of them buy a decent amount and many that are taking steps to slowly phase in more legitimate software even if it's a copy of jBridge and a DAW. Also I know that many members have posted releases which they purchased so we can add them as well. And then there's those that actually have high-profile jobs scoring for movies, television, video games, sound designers, famous DJs, artists, developers, UI designers, reversers, label owners, you name it and there are LOTS of them. You'd really be surprised how much talent we have here and how the person you talk to next could be just about anyone...a major reason that I implore everyone to find a way to make this work and be mindful of that fact. We could all have a very different experience of this forum, as great as it already is, if we did.

I can also tell you that many developers don't advertise here because they want to keep up appearances that their official position is against warez. Of course behind the scenes I could write a book just on how appearances can be deceiving and things aren't always what they seem. However developers dropping by AudioSex has been on the rise for quite some time. Off the top of my head Spitfire Audio quoted Andrew on 2 of their banners with a reference to the site, there are representatives from Steinberg, LennarDigital, Boz Digital, TechnoTranceSoundbanks, Orion Sounds, Spartan Sounds, U-he, Udemy, Dark Harmony, Bigcat and there are also many smaller developers as well. Then there are many that are there incognito but belong to some big names in the industry. It's actually part of my vision for that forum as a bridge to the developer community. And this is with our currently shitty SEO, wait until we relaunch on a new platform that will improve that as well as many other issues that restrict our ability to fully realize the vision there. We will be able to reach more people than ever before and you can expect that more and more developers will begin to take us seriously not just because we're a vital market segment even in spite of the fact that our percentage of supporters may be smaller than on KVR for example but also because some devs even learn from us or work with us on exciting projects and I'd like to see more of that. When you really get down to it we're the segment that they need to reach the most irrespective of how that might currently translate to their bottom line. Doing so would pay off in high dividends in an assortment of ways. Anyway like both of us has said, this is a very open-ended topic and one that I'm still investigating from all angles because I would like more data to gain a better insight into the matter. Always fun having an interesting discussion. Thanks for the company and sharing your thoughts.

you just prove how ignorant you are. You think just by writing a novel for your comments that include words that you used from a thesaurus that it makes you any more intelligent. Back your words up with action. Your "solid" 92 comments? Man you really love poking at the wrong animals. I will not stoop to your level as my status speaks for itself. 2 years member, 92 comments, no posts, no shares, GTFO!

Come on man. There is no reason we can't discuss this without animosity. I was hoping that my comment would get us back to the issue and be thought-provoking and engaging with regards to the subject at hand. Now it's becoming more work and damage control. Let's start the weekend on a good note guys. It was an interesting convo, let's explore it without senseless battles.

I actually want to respond to a lot in detail but just wanted to say thanks to those that took time to reach out and show appreciation for the work that goes into maintaining the 2 forums. It's oftentimes a difficult thankless job but your gratitude and the knowledge that the site and community helps you in your journeys brings me much happiness. Have a nice weekend everyone.

I'm not sure if some of the others were aware what was actually going on with Intrinsic, or if they are his buddies, or whatever. I noticed the down-votes I received from some folks I'm not familiar with, vice-versa. But pretty much I chose to stick up for a fellow member in a way here.. Dalmation.. and I don't know them personally either. This was at the very beginning of this thread. I noted that what I was saying to Intrinsic was not personal, but only an example to show how another member could take the same approach towards him as he did with Dalmation as he was just as "off" as Dalmation was as far as his reply. It was to show he could find it just as offensive if someone (me in this example) took the time to criticize or correct him on a subject that petty. And, it worked.. test proven. I read pilz971's comment which was a real subject worth him bringing up, and a subject that's worthy of genuine replies/opinions. I encourage anyone to read or re-read my comment/s on the product showing up here as early as it did, and whether the developer will lose money because of that. pilz971 was pissed off because he knows the developer personally, and the thought is the developer will lose money because the product arrived here fast. That's understandable, and that's what many believe. However, I had information to share which is based on the same concepts that many businesses, developers, etc. can rest easy on. My comments were to indicate that many think they are losing money in cases like this when they aren't. Some of it pertains to demographics in accord with the sales market. I went a little into the topic of bootlegging, etc. Nevertheless, my comments on the subject were the basic sharing of a different perspective as far as the business side of things are concerned. This is the same perspective that is predominant from in the film industry to lawsuits against Kim.com. If you cannot hold it in your hand.. the perspective is no one has lost anything until someone else has made some money. That is the idea in it's simplest form, and it is the strongest and most sensible idea as far as the means to support it. The replies and thumbs down I received from Intrinsic himself were in spite of an entirely separate "hoopla" subject that didn't pertain to any of this at all. I didn't downvote him in return.. why get more petty on an already petty subject? But everything I shared today that wasn't addressed to Intrinsic I encourage members to look at those perspectives and try to understand them, or not. But don't be the type of community members to pass by and click a thumbs down button but can't piece together and share what it is you aren't in sync with. That's B!#@h S#!t.. some of you have to know what I mean.